Posts by Reefton Jack

20

self-defense

by SPAZnik in

what comes to mind when you hear those words?

Reefton Jack

The "Society's Way" on this matter is about as meaningful as the Society's Way on anything else!

Bullies only bully because they don't intend to get hurt.

- Likewise for people who fight as part of a gang.

The flipside of this is: injure one of them - particularly if he is either the ringleader and/or the biggest one of the group - and the others lose interest very suddenly.

No, WTS - you are wrong about this one, the same as you are about everything else.Everyone needs to know how to defend themselves - because a time is very likely to happen that you are the only one who will!

Jack.

22

Higher Education

by XBEHERE in

jw
friends

hello all...just cant stay away from you...hehe .

at our recent co visit, at the elder/ms meeting where co goes over a branch approved outline with us he spent 10 min on the subheading "avoid snares of pursuing higher education"...something like that, my notes are at home but you get the gist.

he essentially spent the time bashing university education citing among other things that a full 30% that go to college dont find employment in the field that they studied in.

Reefton Jack

The scariest thing about these such utterances is this:

- like me as an impressionable 6th Form (i.e Grade 11) student back in 1971, some people will actually believe that crap!

I presently work on a remote mining site, in an environment that is unsafe from a law and order point of view - and where your health also suffers.

People frequently ask just why I do this. The answer is actually obvious - try getting a decent job anywhere else, if you haven't a University Degree.

I feel for my grandaughter, who will be bombarded with this "spirit inspired guidance." (Yeah, I know, I reared my two daughters too well!)

Jack.

PS: If any of these Know-all about F##k-all Pompous WT Morons tried to tell me to my face that Higher Education is "no good", I do believe that I might be tempted to do something drastic!

54

Did anyone actually enjoy field service?

by Check_Your_Premises in

.

did anyone ever actually admit it if they hated it?.

cyp

Reefton Jack

No more than I enjoyed the two-hour long, boring meetings - or the four day long boring assemblies.

Further to that, I honestly believed that I was not enjoying the "Field Service" because there was a point that I was missing somewhere along the line! I did believe that this was "Jehovah's Service" - just that there must be something wrong with me, if I did not like what I was doing.

Jack.

52

What did you take with you when you left the organization?

by coffee_black in

leaving the organization, it is like packing for a journey you can choose what you take with you, and what you leave behind (other than people).

there are things i chose to take with me.

for example, i have used the sales training to my advantage over the years.

Reefton Jack

Regarding those that never became good speakers, despite the Ministry School, there are a number of possible explanations:

- One factor could be personal application i.e. as with all learning, you only get out of it what you put into it. (Were all Ministry School students necessarily interested in actually becoming good speakers? )

- Others may have needed more advanced training in Public Speaking than that offered by the Ministry School.

- Still others would have never made good public speakers, no matter what the standard of training offered (One poster has used the term "knotheads"!)

By virtue of my upbringing and geographical location, I was not by nature any sort of a speaker - whether public or otherwise.. (Ones who were present when I gave my first ever No.2 Talk were happy to remind me about that decades after the event!) Well before I finally broke with the borg, the consensus by everyone was that I was by then a good speaker ( OK - I know that I am not being modest in making that statement. I am, however, being accurate.)

Since breaking with them 11 years ago, I have continued to have no difficulty in speaking to an audience. That has included some tense scenes, as in last July;when I had to face down a crowd of angry, striking workers.

I have never had any other training in Public Speaking other than the Ministry School - so I can only conclude that I gained my skills from that source.

Mind you - that is the one and only benefit that I took away from the JWs:

- and I would be quick to add that it was a bloody expensive course in Public Speaking!

Jack

40

Is there anyone at Bethel who knows Greek or Hebrew?

by VM44 in

fred franz was known to have some knowledge of the greek and hebrew languages, and made use of that knowledge when he worked on the new world translation of the holy scriptures.

but he died in 1992. is there anyone at bethel today who has a knowledge of these biblicl languages?.

it would be strange if a religious book publishing organization turned out to have no one at all who could read the bible in its original languages.. does anyone know what people are currently on the watchtower's bible translation committee, and if they know the languages?.

Reefton Jack

AlanF,

One such recent example of NWT error in translating from Hebrew is discussed in the post "Bible Translation" on 15 December 2005. (This mis-translation appears to be more than just doctrinal bias).

I hope that this is of interest to you.

Jack.

40

Is there anyone at Bethel who knows Greek or Hebrew?

by VM44 in

fred franz was known to have some knowledge of the greek and hebrew languages, and made use of that knowledge when he worked on the new world translation of the holy scriptures.

but he died in 1992. is there anyone at bethel today who has a knowledge of these biblicl languages?.

it would be strange if a religious book publishing organization turned out to have no one at all who could read the bible in its original languages.. does anyone know what people are currently on the watchtower's bible translation committee, and if they know the languages?.

Reefton Jack

AlanF,

OK - I got it back to front in that FW Franz declined to translate an English sentence into Hebrew - and I am happy to be corrected on those details.

All I can say from my own experience where I am presently working in Papua New Guinea:

- I have never experienced any more difficulty in translating English into the Tok Pisin language, than I have experienced doing the reverse.

The 1954 Douglas Walsh case did, though, show FW Franz to be a novice - even a raw novice - in his knowledge of the Hebrew language. That does not exactly instill any confidence in the accuracy of the New World Translation - he was the only committee member to have any knowledge of the Hebrew language at all!

(There is an expression where I come from, to the effect that "A little knowledge is dangerous." )

When I first started studying with / being indoctrinated by the JWs, I was told that FW Franz was "The World's Foremost Scholar in Hebrew and Greek." Not knowing any better, I actually believed that at the time (Yeah, I know - silly bugger!)

As to instances where the NWT has mis-translated certain Hebrew words, I can't recall offhand exactly, but will do some research and locate these.

Jack.

40

Is there anyone at Bethel who knows Greek or Hebrew?

by VM44 in

fred franz was known to have some knowledge of the greek and hebrew languages, and made use of that knowledge when he worked on the new world translation of the holy scriptures.

but he died in 1992. is there anyone at bethel today who has a knowledge of these biblicl languages?.

it would be strange if a religious book publishing organization turned out to have no one at all who could read the bible in its original languages.. does anyone know what people are currently on the watchtower's bible translation committee, and if they know the languages?.

Reefton Jack

AlanF,

Concerning Franz's abilities with the Hebrew language - did he not get caught out in a 1954 court case in Scotland, where he declined to translate a very basic sentence from Hebrew into English?

Whatever other reason could he have had for declining the challenge, other than his not being confident in translating even a simple sentence?

Further to that, there have been a number of posts on this board from Hebrew-speaking people, concerning the NWT rendering of certain Hebrew words. In this, the New World Translation has been way off the mark to the point of being laughable.

Jack.

52

What did you take with you when you left the organization?

by coffee_black in

leaving the organization, it is like packing for a journey you can choose what you take with you, and what you leave behind (other than people).

there are things i chose to take with me.

for example, i have used the sales training to my advantage over the years.

Reefton Jack

I actually derived considerable benefits from the Ministry School - however flawed that "school" may be. That training helped last year, for example, when I on one occassion I had to face-down mob of (extremely!) angry striking workers.

I would be quick to add, though, that it all proved to be a bloody expensive course in Public Speaking!

Aside from that, I took away:

- A trainload of resentment.

- A total disinterest in religion in any of its forms.

- A quest to rediscover the person that I was before the WTS Madness took hold.

Jack.

23

Did Anyone Try to Warn You About the WTS?

by tmo1965 in

did anyone try to warn you about the wts before you saw the light?

how did you react to the info?

did you resent the person / people who told you?

Reefton Jack

Yes - unfortunately though, they did this in a hysterical and irrational manner:

ie. Raved and ranted on and on about "that lot" being full of s#*t ect. ect. ect. - without presenting any evidence to back their accusations up.

Consequently, it had the opposite effect on me to what they intended - I concluded that these were the ones who were really full of s#&t, and switched off.

Jack.

39

beards not a rule but!!!

by frogit in

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/4666132.stm .

this caught my eyes and reminded me when as a ministerial servant that we had to go into the back room for instructions from the po (not very clever man), he tried his best to explain to us ms and elders about the wearing of beards in the congregation.

he must have gone on and on for 30 minutes about not having beards, but kept impressing that this was not a rule, but beards should not be worn, but its not a rule, just dont expect to have any privileges if you grow one on your face and wear it (sounds like you wear it like a tie he he) but we are not making it a rule, just dont wear a beard.

Reefton Jack

You also used to frequently hear about an incident in the Field Service, which involved a "brother" who did have a beard:

- Allegedly, someone cut this "brother" off - insisting that they "did not want to get involved in a student rebellion" .

The inference from this was that if you had a beard, people would automatically assume that you were a "rebellious student." (Never mind that if you take the trouble to look around a university campus, the students don't look too much different than anyone else the same age!)

Interestingly, 30 years ago, this rule was relaxed somewhat in some congregations in Australia for a time - myself and several others retained as Ministerial Servants, while growing a full beard.

The rationale at that point was that such matters were up to the individual's conscience.

Of course, that quickly went out the window when the Borg realised that they could not maintain their absolute control over everyone; if people were free to follow the dictates of their consciences.

Jack.